Jody Watley opens up on disrupting and diversifying the dance floor and the fashion world for more than four decades…
By Elio Iannacci
Few singer-songwriters have been able to bridge the worlds of fashion and pop music in the way 65-year-old Jody Watley has. In the four decades she’s been recording, writing, singing, producing and performing, Watley’s body of work has shaken zeitgeists, broken new ground and allowed us to understand the importance of understatement. Her upper hand is letting fierceness and coolness live together in harmony and verse. Any time Watley premieres a new song – such as her recently released “Everlasting” – she’s able to redefine our notions of what a diva means with her refined yet nonchalant vibe.
If you listen and look carefully within the pantheon of pop music, Watley’s ongoing impact is everywhere. Her signature style has recently rerouted itself onto the runway via the elegance she championed through wearing jumbo hoop earrings, shirts with oversized collars and eclectic chain belts. Watley popularized all of those trends right after dancing on Soul Train and joining ’70s disco super troupe Shalamar. When Watley made the decision to finally go solo, her influence was unstoppable. From her first self-titled album of 1987, Watley’s arresting sound – best heard in smash hits such as “Looking For A New Love,” “Some Kind of Lover,” “Still A Thrill” and “Don’t You Want Me” – recalibrated new wave, pop and R&B music in a way that didn’t sound forced or focus-grouped. You can still hear the reverberations off her first disc – which was released 37 years ago – in recordings from artists like Janelle Monáe and Lil’ Nas X.
The Grammy voting committee so often gets it wrong when it comes to doling out the Best New Artist trophy…but in 1988, the industry could not deny Watley’s wattage and bestowed the coveted award to her (famously handed to her by the extra-sassy Little Richard – YouTube his intro for a laugh). Watley’s second disc, 1989’s Larger Than Life, cemented her fame. With genre-bending and blending hits such as “Real Love” and “Friends,” Watley’s crystal ball-like sophomore prophesized the next 30 years of singers with a sound and vision that fuelled artists such as En Vogue, Rihanna, TLC and Beyoncé. The videos to Watley’s second album showcased backing and ballroom culture before Paris Is Burning and Madonna came along. Her imagery highlighted her deep affection for European fashion designers in a way that presented her to the public as an artist – not as a brand.
Through the years, Watley has done what few divas of her stature have been able to do. She’s not only acknowledged her 2SLGBTQI+ fanbase, Watley has worked directly with the best of them. She’s constantly shining a spotlight – or sharing it – with her hand-picked circle of queer co-producers.
Together with key 2SLGBTQI+ members, Watley has gone on to pilot nine studio albums: writing, performing, producing and presenting songs which often showcase her appreciation for what is the soundtrack of queer liberation – disco and house music. Lately, she’s taken on a side hustle for Sirius XM as the host of The Jody Watley Show, where she interviews like-minded artists, many of whom have blazed their own trails.
During a break from hosting, writing and recording, Watley sat down to talk about her provocative collaborations and multi- layered discography.
Now that you have your own Sirius XM radio show, how would you say your style of interviewing has evolved?
I’m pretty chill. My larger-than-life side comes out when I’m singing or performing. I’ve learned to let a conversation breathe when I talk to guests. It really takes the pressure off and makes them comfortable.
Guests on the show like En Vogue and TLC have told you how much your vocals and your style inspired their work. Was this a surprise?
I didn’t quite understand the amount of respect that was there for my work until it was explained to me. I mean, I was told T-Boz credited me for influencing the way she sang when she first started – she even tagged me in an appreciation post about it. But to hear her describe how my voice impacted hers was a different story. Helping anyone find their own voice or find their own sound is a gift. With En Vogue, I was shy to learn that my approach to styling – since I’ve mainly styled myself – motivated the way the group wanted to present themselves. I was – and still am – humbled.
The video to 1987’s “Still A Thrill” is one of your masterpieces. It showcases you waacking in the Paris Opera House, years before Madonna’s “Vogue.” Did you know how groundbreaking it would be?
There were a lot of firsts with it. Can you believe that was the first music video filmed at the Opera House? My record company at the time was worried because ‘Still a Thrill’ came out after the monumental success of ‘Looking for a New Love.’ There was a big difference between each track, since ‘Still A Thrill’ was sung in lower tones and a register that wasn’t as feminine as they were accustomed to, but that’s what I loved about it. It was a unique, bold move. The record company was certainly not equipped to bring that to the public. It was too out of the box or ahead of its time or whatever, but I never cared about being on time or of-the-time.
In that video, you move from the steps of the Opera House to a graffiti wall that has the words ‘Gay Color, Say Cool Say What.’ Was there concern about facing a backlash for being pro-gay?
I wasn’t trying to be controversial but I wasn’t close-minded either. I certainly wasn’t trying to do the whole ‘let me market this for the gay community because they’re my fans and I need their money.’ Never. I always worked with talented people from the community who informed my work and I informed theirs. It was always a give-and-take relationship. When I’m calling out to gay culture in any way, it’s always from my heart. It’s a part of me. It’s family, it’s friends, it’s creative partners. Disco and house music are in my bones and we all know where it came from. I grew up in this world starting from my early days on Soul Train.
I do want to talk about your powerful alliance with dancer Tyrone “The Bone” Proctor. How did he push you and how did you push him?
I met Tyrone when I was a teenager on Soul Train, and the first thing he said, ‘Ms. Thing, you need to be dancing in heels.’ He was such a character! I’d be dancing with lower energy; he’d say ‘Dance, bitch. You ain’t dancing!’ So I’d turn it up for him. He was always a hype person. It would be our back-and-forth. I didn’t have interactions like that to that degree with anyone else because Tyrone – rest his soul – had that instant connection with me. He taught me how to live and serve attitude in front of the camera.
Is it true you both had no choreographer for “Still A Thrill”?
No choreographer and no choreography. I insisted Tyrone was going to be in this video with me – waacking it out, all freestyle. We made it up as we went along! I would love to have that footage because every take was different since we were just restyling each scene. Tyrone brought the underground gay, Black, Latino style into Soul Train and into what we did. It was all about showing attitude and making people see the glamour in the music.
For many years, queer people who were art directors, choreographers, remixers or stylists were hidden in the background, never to be seen on camera or credited for their work. You did the exact opposite.
You know, I never thought about Tyrone as a backup dancer or someone who was hired to help. He was an equal. That video was my homage to him, too…to us both, really. To have him come to Paris with me and say to him: ‘Honey, just do what you do’ – was important to me. No limitations were there. It’s true, a lot of entertainers are so insecure, they don’t want to give acknowledgement or props to anybody like Tyrone or anyone like him who is part of shaping their work. Many of them would have thought, ‘I’m not putting him out front. He might outshine me.’ I’m an artist who loves artists. I wanted to see him tear the Paris Opera House all the way up.
You’ve been prolific with releasing songs pretty much each year. How much does news or politics affect the way you write?
When I have something to say, I put it into a song. Even during the pandemic, I released a track called ‘The Healing’ because I thought it was very appropriate for where we were back then.
Your latest track, “Everlasting,” has a lyric that I want to talk about: ‘Don’t let the worst of life get the best of you.’ When did you embrace that idea?
It started as a little girl. I was always so determined, so I feel I was born with that line. Honestly, ‘Everlasting’ has now jumped to the top of my favourite songs I’ve written. It’s so important, especially in these times. Suicide rates are high. People get depressed when they go on social media and they see made-up lives. There are so many public political divides. A lot of us suffer many defeats, but that doesn’t mean we are defeated. We’ve got to all take some punches here and there, but these struggles don’t have to knock us out or be the end of us. I hate boxing – I don’t know why I’m using that analogy, but I’ve triumphed through so much. I forever want people to remember to stay everlasting and make it through – it’s become a mantra for me.
Was there a moment when the worst of life actually did get the best of you?
Definitely. During the release of my Flower album in ’98, I had already started my own label in ’95 called Avitone. I was happily independent with an album called Affection. A major label approached me and I really didn’t want to work with them, but they talked me into it. It broke my heart because I was promoting the album and my song ‘Off the Hook’ from the Flower album, and it went number one on the Billboard dance chart. I was doing TV interviews about it and the record company kept pushing back the album’s release. When I signed to them, I wanted to make the album Saturday Night Experience – a club record inspired by one of my favourite albums, Everything But The Girl’s Amplified Heart. I wanted to work with [EBTG’s] Ben Watt and explore electronic dance with him. The record company agreed to it. Then, as soon as they signed me, they didn’t want me to write songs! They wanted me to do a different album altogether. That was the first time in my solo career, I thought things messed up. I really wanted to quit the music business altogether.
What were the repercussions of that decision?
When they delayed the album, I couldn’t go and record anywhere else. They had me in this weird legal limbo. I thought they were trying to push me out of the business actually. It’s never that bad because I’ve always had my kids to lift me up…but professionally, I was done with music until I heard 4hero’s album Two Pages. It gave me a lifeline. It made me want to be creative and it made me rethink what was conventional or commercially accepted. I’m lucky because all of my records – the hits or not hits – they’re still reflective of me.
Your collaboration with 4hero – “Bed of Roses” – is one of your most political tracks. The song’s verses call out: ‘Government cutbacks, war kills, single mothers, incarcerated brothers.’ What motivated you writing it?
I used to listen to NPR a lot – especially This American Life. In my car, I was listening to a particular episode about a single mother struggling, and it felt like I was listening to a good song because I did not want to get out of the car until the story was totally finished. I was so moved by it. I’ve been so blessed to exceed my dreams and create new goals for myself, but many people never get to achieve what they want because of wars, economic issues or limitations they can’t control. I wrote that song in my car. If I’m disappointed about anything, it’s that more people don’t know it or some of my best work.
The Quentin Harris and The Illustrious Blacks remix of “Everlasting” honours house music and reflects the soundtrack of Black gay clubs of the past and present. What is it about house that keeps you interested?
First of all, since day one, I’ve been house music girl – I love dance music and have remixed songs before it was cool to do that. Even if the house music artist isn’t popular, I don’t care…as long as their songs are real and the sound is legit, I’m won over. I love Masters at Work [who remixed Watley’s ‘Off The Hook’ and ‘I Love To Love’] and would love to work with them again. Nuyorican Soul is one of my favourite albums of all time. This goes for David Morales too [who remixed Watley’s ‘Ecstasy’ and ‘I’m The One You Need’] – who I still love.
When I do remixes, it can’t be some throwaway dance track. It’s very important to me to maintain the authenticity, quality and integrity of the song. A good house producer keeps the joy, the soul and the glamour of what I am making. Quentin and The Illustrious Blacks dressed up ‘Everlasting’ to the nines; they were able to take it up a notch and reflect a big part of who I am without it ever sounding contrived.
Collaborators you’ve had in the past – like photographer Steven Meisel, makeup giant François Nars and hairstyling legend Oribe – have gone on to become the biggest names in fashion. What direction did you give them for the image blueprint for projects such as 1989’s Larger Than Life?
I wanted the photography to be timeless. It had to be fashion- forward, but I also did not want it dated; it had to be able to live during any time. When you look at my bone slick hair on the cover of Larger Than Life, it could be Naomi Campbell in an editorial today. I spent a fortune on research and bought imported fashion magazines like Italian Vogue for years. I knew I wanted to work with Steven Meisel and make my version of those European fashion magazine pages come to life. I said to them all: I want what you guys are doing now. No more tulle and petticoats – I want to serve fashion. I’m a singer, I’m a songwriter, I’m a producer, but I’m also bad bitch on the runway. No one was doing that at that time. Nobody was even working a wind machine, but if you look at that cover art for my song ‘Real Love,’ we worked it all day long. Nowadays, Beyoncé and a wind machine are a must. I am so proud to be part of that template and see the influence of what we did together, because it has lasted for decades.
What did fashion offer you as an artist?
A vehicle where I could truly explore myself. I grew up loving fashion magazines, so I’d be practising my poses in the mirror. Camera work is very natural for me. Steven Meisel is the most meticulous photographer I’ve ever worked with. We snapped more than a hundred Polaroids to get it right. I loved it all…put me in front of the camera and I’ll come alive. I own the photography we did together and I keep thinking I need to do a coffee table book.
Did your partnerships with Jean Paul Gaultier, Stephen Sprouse and Azzedine Alaïa help you to express who you were?
Yes. Most iconic artists have an identifiable style, but that does require taking a chance. You don’t want to come off as a copycat but you need to look for people who are speaking your language. If you want to be a true independent spirit, you also have to find like-minded people and be able to create your own vision of yourself with them. I was always mixing high and low fashion and vintage with couture. It was something I loved to do. I learned that you have to take the criticism that comes with that too. People will call you a weirdo if you’re not in the box they decided to put you into.
Who would you say influenced your own ideas about beauty?
My long-time makeup artist, Paul Starr. He worked with me on a lot of things and he’d always be ready to experiment or read my mood or translate my vision. We pushed the limits and didn’t look at the standards. I can still hear him say, ‘Yes, Ms. Jody. Yes, you’re working it.’ His kind of energy enhanced how I thought about presenting myself and my work.
In 1992, your song “I’m the One You Need” predated songs like Destiny’s Child “Independent Women” with lyrics such as ‘I’m not out to get your money because I buy my own clothes and I pay my own rent.’ Was it important to you to present yourself as a woman who is self-sufficient?
Oh yes. I’ve always tried to write from a perspective of empowering and empowerment. On my first hit, ‘Looking for a New Love,’ I say it right there in the lyrics: ‘Now you’re like the rest, unworthy of my best Hasta la vista, baby.’ On ‘Real Love,’ I sing about how I have ‘No time to play love games,’ and on ‘I’m the One You Need,’ I wanted the listener to be confident and to let them know I’m not with someone for money. There was already a whole lot of misogyny in the ’90s; I didn’t want to add to any of it. Everybody was using the H word or the B word. My point of view was, and still is, I can take care of myself. I want other people that are listening to get that sense of strength.
So much of your work is also about exploring relationships as you mature. Is it therapeutic?
I do think having a dialogue about self-worth is important and it is something I like to write about. On my song, ‘Skin Deep,’ I have a conversation with someone who I’m in a relationship with. It has lines: ‘I want to talk. I’m curious exactly how you’re seeing us. Will you be here when I’m old? Beauty will not keep us together.’ I believe that owning who you are at any age is something you should work on throughout your entire life.
In 1990, you contributed to Red, Hot and Blue, the first HIV/ AIDS charity album in history. A lot of big names passed on the project for fear they’d be ostracized. Were you worried that it could divide your fan base?
No, but my label didn’t want me to do it. They said if I did a project about HIV/AIDS, it would kill my career and people would think that I had HIV or AIDS. That made me want to do it even more. I had had close friends pass away, and even though it was seen as really taboo in the Black community and the Black press to talk about HIV/AIDS, I had to. I saw it as such an honour to be a part of such an important, necessary album and documentary that was meant to educate people. It was dedicated to Cole Porter, and my parents always played jazz, so to sing his song, ‘After You, Who,’ for him and his memory? For a cause that was urgent? I told the record company, ‘I’m doing this…let the chips fall where they may.’
Your label also didn’t want to release the remixes to your 1994 song, “When A Man Loves A Woman” – which you remixed into a house track and re-released as “When A Man Loves A Man” and “When A Woman Loves A Woman.” Did they tell you why?
That was at a time when there was so much misogyny and homophobia and disrespect was everywhere. The song already had a strike against it since some of it was like spoken word. It sounded like a journal entry and it tackled domestic violence, the reality of AIDS…. It wasn’t a fun, warm, fuzzy topic for a record. But for a true artist, it is something you want to stand by. When it came time for the remixes, I wanted to address and include the strongest part of my fan base – my gay fan base. It’s an anthem to acknowledge their love too. I’d love to do a new remix where I also give love to everyone who is non-binary or outside of margins. However, I do say the words ‘intertwining sexuality’ in the song.
A pivotal song off 2006’s The Makeover album, titled ‘Makeover Superstar’ has the lyric, ‘It’s not where you’re from, it’s where you’re at.’ This sentiment resonates so much with the onslaught of influencer culture. In hindsight, what do you think the song was reacting to?
I want to let everyone know that you need to be your own celebrity. It’s really about not being consumed with fame. People get stuck in where they’ve been in life and how that compares to someone else, but I think being present and focusing on the future is powerful.
I could release ‘Makeover Superstar’ now because it speaks to social media so directly – especially the idea of getting followers with your style or your personality. There’s a lyric that addresses all that: ‘Marc Jacobs, Louis Vuitton bag, designer jeans, got to have all eyes on me.’
You also have a lot of questions in your lyrics. For example, in the song you originally released in 2001, called “Clouds,” you ask: ‘Are you listening to your life, are you listening to the changes?’Are these questions self-directed or for the listener?
Both. I wrote ‘Clouds’ as a way to remind myself that it may not be easy but I’ve got to pay attention to the universe. I believe in energy and auras, and I think we get messages all the time. We just have to look for them…. Sometimes I hear them in songs or I end up writing songs about them.
Legendary opera soprano Leontyne Price once said, ‘You should leave your era; it should never leave you.’ Do you think that applies to the music industry of today?
I feel fortunate enough to keep evolving as an artist and not feel stuck in nostalgia. The easiest thing to do is schedule a thousand Greatest Hits tours. I get it, but I don’t market myself as that kind of artist. My dad used to say, ‘Don’t be the last one at the party.’
In your 2006 “A Beautiful Life,” there’s a lyric that breaks down the dilemma of bad relationships: ‘I’d rather be living on my own than to live in a constant state of misery.’ What inspired the verse?
That was a lingering thought from my divorce. When the relationship is over, move on and everybody go be happy. People need to be reminded: you can be miserable by yourself or happy by yourself. It’s a choice.
I recently reread the memoir of one of your heroes, Grace Jones. She talks about how singers such as Lady Gaga, Rihanna and Beyoncé are ‘risk-takers who don’t want to take risks.’ As someone who has stuck their neck out so much, do you see that too?
I’m running my own race so I really don’t have an opinion on that. Besides, the music industry is in shambles. That said, there are quality artists out there making great choices…. I love Sy Smith. Her new album Until We Meet Again is fantastic. Times change and there is no more artist development in music so it’s hard to judge, because artists – including myself – are in a completely different ball game than in the past. I’ve been lucky enough tobe independent for so long. From my first album, I’d often style myself, make connections with designers for myself, come up with a vision for videos and albums with people I chose to work with. For the most part, I never got talked into something that did not represent me at all.
Did you feel the repercussions of not being middle of the road or following trends?
I’m always an outcast in that way, an outlier or whatever. I got it all: she’s not Black enough, she’s not street enough, she’s too this, she’s too that. The biggest risk is being yourself. My parents did a great job by letting me know that it’s not what other people think of you, it’s what you think of yourself. So, I’m really grateful to them for instilling me with that. I miss them both.
Who would you want to collaborate with now?
I like Anderson Paak and Black Coffee, but I love Kaytranada. His dance beats are subtle and he understands dance music history… but he’s so modern. I like his vibe because it has a classic quality to it. He’s cute too. I would be happy to do a guest vocal on one of his records.
ELIO IANNACCI is an award-winning arts reporter and graduate student at York University whose research interests include ethnomusicology and gender studies. He has contributed to more than 80 publications worldwide, profiling icons such as Barbra Streisand, Lady Gaga, Aretha Franklin and Beyoncé. His academic work is supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council.
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